It's time...

[Cliff731]

for something to get started here... and I'm not the most "politically" chatty person in the house. Usually, I don't seek out such banter and discourse, but perhaps it is truly "time" for some discussion... after all, I did vote in my State's "primary election" yesterday!!!

So... in the spirit of it all, I'm gonna toss out some images to test the waters and see how you guys react... :poke:

http://www.all4humor.com/images/files/Scary%20Hillary%20Clinton.jpg

http://www.nmmng.co.uk/Images/bush-holding-baby.jpg

http://littlemissattila.mu.nu/archives/kerry_shoot.jpg

[jkroner659]

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/jkroner659/Hillerynutcracker.jpg

[Cliff731]

notice the fine example of safe firearm handling he has demonstrated for us...

http://members.cox.net/desertcat01/Kerry-gun-safety-3.jpg


And some "voters" reach out to Senator Kerry...

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/kerry.gif


Now, our California senator who wants "Mr. and Mrs. America to turn 'em in"...

http://static.flickr.com/38/85616074_25ad1c2895.jpg

[Cliff731]

Okay... Jason... that's a bit scary there... that "monkey" just might get ya!!! :toofunny:

[Dash Riprock]

Here's my 2 cents...

Hilary... All I can remember for 8 very long years when she was in the White House with that humiliation of a husband of her is everyone getting sick of her. "No one elected you", "Shut Up"... I do not recall hearing kind words about her from either side and the media wasn't exactly in her favor either.

She wanted one task. A task that wasn't up to her in the first place and that was health care. What happened? She screwed it up! It's still screwed up largely because her.

She did nothing but create scandal and controversy from day one and has absolutely nothing to offer the country, but even more of it. If she couldn't handle one task in 8 years, what the fuck makes anyone think for one second she's fit to run the entire country? It's absolutely ridiculous!

John Kerry... He's not even running, so let's be thankful, but his little court jester, John Edwards is...

You know really turns me off about Edwards? He's a sleazy son of a bitch. He has no respect or manners. I am in no way a fan of Dick Chenney, but during the last elections when the vice president and candidates where debating, Edwards took a low blow. He had to mention Chenney's lesbian daughter and I know he did it to try and discredit Chenney. I just thought it was low to drag an innocent person into the whole thing, who had nothing to do with the elections.

Then there's the whole thing with him using his wife having cancer to gain that sympathy vote. Even if she does support that part of it, it's low down and I cannot trust anyone like that.

Diane Feinstein... Just another crack pot politician that finds her way into the spotlight by kissing special interest ass.

What is it about California and New York politicians that makes them think they control the entire country?

There's that damned fool Carolyn McCarthy, who wants to ban anything and everything that has to do with guns for every state in the country. Her own state is completely fucked up with crime. They can't even get their shit straight in one of the smallest states in the country, a state that has pretty strict gun laws I might add, and they want to make laws for the rest of us?

Piss on Her, Bloomberg and all the rest of them. Clean your own house up before you even think of trying to do house cleaning in mine!

Ok, I strayed a little bit... Sorry! :D

[jkroner659]

Does anyone else feel the mass of the people will vote democrat just because most of the people(including myself) think Bush is a way below avg. president? I feel our next president will be the dems nominee.

So you have basically Hillary and Obama. Both will be a new type of president(if elected) for 2 different reasons. Obama is a "brotha" and Hillary is a female. I'm sure they will get alot of support from their 2 different backgrounds. But...for some reason, and I hope I am wrong...I think Hillary will be our next president, no :bs:.

I don't consider myself a dem or a repub, like David. Personally I would love to see :bows:Ron Paul:bows: get in because he knows all about the federal reserve and he knows the problem they are making for America. Plus he is a down to earth guy, and I feel he will not B.S. us as much as a younger candidate. I really think he is dare I say...the only acceptable candidate.

[jkroner659]

LOL Damn Cliff are you still typing??? Spit it out already :toofunny:

[Dash Riprock]

I think the closer we get to the elections next year the more people will hear about Hilary and Barak... I doubt either of them will be the next president.

I think the next Prez will likely be Fred Thompson. The reason I think that is because he's got a huge support following and he hasn't even officially entered the race.

The only person on the Repubs side I like so far is Ron Paul, but no one is giving him a chance. They are focused on Guiliani and McCain...Neither of them, especially Guiliani has anything to offer.

The thing I really like about Fred is he is electable and he's NOT politician.

But it's still early, so only time will tell if he can keep my respect.

[Cliff731]

Here's my 2 cents...

John Kerry... He's not even running, so let's be thankful, but his little court jester, John Edwards is...

Yeah, Kerry's not running... but he sure wanted to... and speaking of Edwards... here's your "court jester"...

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w266/pentaxuser01/KerryEdwards.jpg



You know really turns me off about Edwards? He's a sleazy son of a bitch.

David... he is a lawyer turned politician with ambitions on the White House.

Naturally he would lie, cheat, steal... whatever it takes to get there.

Personally, I don't think the man is electable. I am gonna say Kroner is right in his prediction of a "Hillary - Obama" ticket for the Democrats. I'm not entirely convinced she is going to win... provided the Republicans play things right for '08.

Watch this man... I have a feeling about him... yeah, he's another actor turned politician, but he has "presidential presence"...

http://www.e-z-smith.com/images/thompson04.jpg

and I'm including this pic for Kroner... it'll make him feel all warm and fuzzy inside... :pat9xu:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/03/30/reagan_bonzo.jpg

[Cliff731]

LOL Damn Cliff are you still typing??? Spit it out already :toofunny:

Dammit, Kroner... I wuz lookin' in my crystal ball... you just can't hurry some things, ya know... :naaa:

[jkroner659]

Looks like Regan to me, Regan was the man:bows:

[Cliff731]

...I think the next Prez will likely be Fred Thompson. The reason I think that is because he's got a huge support following and he hasn't even officially entered the race...

Doggonit, David... we're like in the same room or something, huh? :whs0be:

[Dash Riprock]

Hehe... I know a little about Fred. He was a Tennessee Senator for 2 terms and would probably still be in office if he chose to keep the seat.

[Cliff731]

Looks like Regan to me, Regan was the man:bows:


I didn't really thunk you'd get past the chimp... :nono:

You did good... :pat9xu:

It was Reagan... "Bedtime For Bonzo" movie.

[Dash Riprock]

I didn't really thunk you'd get past the chimp... :nono:

You did good... :pat9xu:

It was Reagan... "Bedtime For Bonzo" movie.


:toofunny:

I liked Regan too. The 80's... Man, what a decade that was!

[Cliff731]

Hehe... I know a little about Fred. He was a Tennessee Senator for 2 terms and would probably still be in office if he chose to keep the seat.

That's part of what I like about Fred Thompson... he is keenly intelligent... and can do anything he wants... and do it well.

How do you spell "Presidential Timber"...???

Try "Senator Fred Thompson".

Best chance the Republicans have for 2008... perhaps their only chance.

Forget Guiliani... forget McCain. They're faltering even now.

Hell, I would probably vote for Hillary just to vote against either of those two guys. If you think Hillary is gonna want your guns... Guiliani wants 'em just as bad. I think McCain has already shot himself in the foot... too much of a maverick... has pissed lots of people off... and most of 'em were Republicans. That's bad "ju-ju" for a guy wantin' to be a Republican president. He might as well kiss his chances of "nomination" goodbye and roll up his tent and go on home. I think the more people know about Guiliani, the less they're gonna like him. Who else is running? See... no recognition.

Fred's the man... I think once he tosses his hat into the ring, he's got it... he will only need the best choice of running mate. I'm gonna toss this one out at you... how about Colin Powell?

[jkroner659]

I would like to see Jesse "the body" Ventura run;) In all seriousness, he is also another down to earth guy who will not trade Americans liberty for security unlike Bush. I am not sure I would vote for him 100%, but I might after I hear more of his stances.

[ksuchewie]

She wanted one task. A task that wasn't up to her in the first place and that was health care. What happened? She screwed it up! It's still screwed up largely because her.


The reason she failed with health care, is exactly what you said just before that...


Hilary... All I can remember for 8 very long years when she was in the White House with that humiliation of a husband of her is everyone getting sick of her. "No one elected you", "Shut Up"...


No one would let her do what she wanted to do. All the men in power couldn't handle the fact that a strong self-powered woman wanted to change some things around. They all fixated, just like you mentioned, that she wasn't the president and she shouldn't be allowed to do what she could.

The rest of this post is just a general statement, not an attack at you David.

Let's not also forget about all the scare tactics that were thrown out by the republicans..."O NO!!! we're going to have socialized medicare!!!, we're going to turn into Russia!" Everyone was too freaked out about the idea of changing health care that all they could do was use scare tactics to throw plans and ideas out the window. We have plenty of other social programs in this country, and they work. Do they need improvement? Sure, but nothing is ever going to be 100% perfect.

If you dare say, our country can't afford national health care...look at this Iraq war and how we seem to keep finding money for. If you have money to kill people in another country, you have money to save lives in your own country. If you say I don't want to pay more taxes, then you really are a self-centered person and don't care about other people in the country. We as Americans who pay for health insurace, pay more individually than another other country, and we are ranked 37th in the world in quality of care! I would guess that if everyone paid taxes for health care, we would each pay less in taxes than what we have deducted out of our paychecks from our employers.

If you have problems with the health care of the nation, look at the replublicans. It started with Nixon, who allowed HMO's to happen. Over the years more and more republicans have been bought and paid off by health care lobbyists to keep everything as private and rich as possible. The only one who has tried to change health care to less privatized is Hillary.

[Toecutter1201]

So... in the spirit of it all, I'm gonna toss out some images to test the waters and see how you guys react...

http://littlemissattila.mu.nu/archives/kerry_shoot.jpg

could be worse............... he could be bird hunting with cheney!

Yeah, Kerry's not running... but he sure wanted to... and speaking of Edwards... here's your "court jester"...

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w266/pentaxuser01/KerryEdwards.jpg

this is what he really meant to say!

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o263/toecutter1201/Political/shut_up.gif


Looks like Regan to me, Regan was the man

i'll make sure and tell him that when i'm urinating on his grave! that piece of dung was personally responsible for the death's of all the marine's in Beirut in1983. and as i swore a blood oath to my fallen comrades to do this before i die!


I would like to see Jesse "the body" Ventura run;) In all seriousness, he is also another down to earth guy who will not trade Americans liberty for security unlike Bush. I am not sure I would vote for him 100%, but I might after I hear more of his stances.

of course, any man who would say the following line in a movie gets my vote.

"Bunch of slack-jawed faggots around here! This stuff will make you a god damned sexual Tyrannosaurus, just like me!"

listen for yourself!

http://datacore.sciflicks.com/predator/sounds/predator_faggots.wav

[ksuchewie]

Personally I would love to see :bows:Ron Paul:bows:

I can't support any candidate that wants to overturn Roe vs. Wade.

He's a little too crazy for me with the whole, let's get rid of all federal power and make each state responsible for everything agenda.

[jkroner659]

We as Americans who pay for health insurace, pay more individually than another other country, and we are ranked 37th in the world in quality of care!

That's a heck of a statement, one that I find hard to believe. Not saying ur pulling this outta your butt, I don't think you are, but where can I read something like this...37th! I could see up to 5th maybe...Don't we have the best doctors here?

[ksuchewie]

but where can I read something like this...37th!


http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

It's not just about the doctors. It's about mortality rates, access to care, distribution of care, access to meds, etc.

[jkroner659]

WOW...learn something new everyday:popcorn:

[Cliff731]

The only problem with Jesse "The Body" Ventura for "Pres" is that I'm getting mental images of him "dropping in on the White House"!!!

I just don't know if we're quite ready for that yet!!! :nono:

Of course, here's a guy with his own "Governor Action Figure"...

http://www.collectorsgateway.com/images/ActionFigures/LBH/Jessie_Gov.JPG

Eat yer heart out, Arnold!!!

[Headhunter 13]

one problem I am having with the candidates on both sides is lack or real world international experience. What I have seen on Thompson is a lot of the same goos ole boy rhetoric, Paul some good things but a bit wacky, Guliani is a hype machine, McCain just can't get it together, Clinton some good stuf but not presidential material,Obama is flacky, Edwards say somer good stuff but is smarmy.

I think we should just go ahead and name ME BENEVOLENT DICTATOR

[Cliff731]

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

It's not just about the doctors. It's about mortality rates, access to care, distribution of care, access to meds, etc.

This is one area where I'm completely in agreement with you, Ksuchewie. :whs0be:

It is about access. It's all about access to quality medical care. It's about access to affordable drugs and medications.

I'm not suggesting that Hillary's plan would have "fixed" anything... and if one goes back and looks at the screwed up mess the Brits caused with their nationalized healthcare system when they "socialized" medicine... well, it's apparent we don't want to go down that road either. Few people recall the mass exodus of the best & brightest British doctors back in the '70's... where did they go? Most all came here. They wanted no part of the socialized medical program nor it's attending limited earnings.

However... the facts remain that our healthcare system in the U.S.A. is in dire straits and needs a major overhaul. If you can't afford good medical insurance (and lots of working Americans cannot) then you are simply SOL. You won't get access to the best care... but worse, you are locked out from even competent medical care. Hell, you might just even be locked out from any medical care.

It's getting worse as "group rates" continue to soar... way too many are priced out of the medical insurance market via unaffordable premiums... and just as bad, unaffordable deductibles on the insurance they may already have means many marginally employed are effectively "locked out"- they can't afford to see a doctor when needed... nor the medicine either.

In our tedious economy with a mercurial job market, any one of you can find yourself "downsized" or "outsourced" or just plain ole' "out of work" before you see it coming. One of the casualties of job loss is your medical/health insurance. Imagine needing a doctor for a sick child. Imagine needing one for yourself. Imagine needing prescription medications... and you can't afford any of this. Imagine your parents on a fixed retirement income... stretched way too thin due to the demands of doctor's visits and drug costs. Imagine their choices are often to eat or buy medicine. What you don't have to imagine is that all this is real... very real.

In this country, there is no reason at all why every man, woman and child shouldn't have the highest quality of medical care possible and the medicine needed when needed... even if they are out of work... or have no insurance. To deny the least of our people this is a blight upon our society... it simply speaks volumes about who we are. This isn't a Democratic deal... or a Republican one... nor is it even a conservative vs. liberal issue. It is a matter of US doing what is right.

I don't know what the solution is... but it's one area where partisan politics can have no place if we're going to "fix" anything anytime soon. I don't have a problem with physicians and medical professionals making a good income... hell, they earn it. I don't have a problem with hospitals making some profit... they cannot operate at a loss... after all they too are a business. I do have a problem with the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies raking in major profits... how much is enough?

We better find an answer to this problem and find it promptly... this is no less than a national crisis... a cancer that is in our society eating away at it's core. Don't suggest that the existing government "programs" take care of all who need help... they simply don't... they fall short. Don't tell me that "we" cannot afford this. We have to "afford" it. The money is there already... we just need to look at where it's being presently spent... the wastefulness of our goverment isn't transparent... we all know about it... just look at the billions of dollars we give away each year in foreign aid. Compassion begins at home... or at least it ought to.

Those of politically conservative leaning have just as much at stake here as those who reside on the other side of the fence. For a guy (or gal) who has worked hard all their life... embraced sound financial management... generally resented government intrusion into their life... and felt that the government didn't have all the answers... well, all you need is one catastrophic accident or illness and everything you've saved for is gone... you can be reduced to a bankrupt pauper status before you know what hit you.

This is one area where our government must take the lead and demand action... and produce results... who else is going to do it? If you've ever wanted your "government" to do something for you, well, this is the one. The private sector cannot accomplish this... the magnitude of scale and costs keeps them away. Is this "socialism"? I think not. No one has complained yet when our government built Hoover Dam, built our National Interstate Highway system, provided electric power to millions with TVA, or spent billions in the "Space Race" ultimately putting an American on the moon.

This is what we should be demanding... no, screaming for from our government leaders... and the candidates for political office.

Our healthcare system should be the absolute envy of the world... and sadly, it isn't. I hate to say it... and this one is pretty doggone tough to think about... but here's one time ole' Michael Moore just might be right.

[Cliff731]

...I think we should just go ahead and name ME BENEVOLENT DICTATOR

:toofunny: :kneel: :speechless:

[Headhunter 13]

See Cliff you get the idea and I am pro 2nd and 1st amendment.

[ksuchewie]

very well said Cliff! :bows:

[Headhunter 13]

very well said Cliff! :bows:

Definitely well said but under this administration a lot of that can be said about a lot of businesses and industries

[Cliff731]

one problem I am having with the candidates on both sides is lack or real world international experience...

Perhaps the last "candidate" we've had with credible "international experience" was Dwight Eisenhower.

Of course, one of our most "revered" Presidents of late, Ronald Reagan, was essentially lacking in "international experience" before taking office.

I hate to admit it, or even think of it... but qualified candidates with such on their resume are rarely seen... and it's not always a predictor of a great President.

That said, a "smart" President will surround himself with such people as do have "international experience"- and actually listen to their advice and act upon it accordingly in the best interests of the American people.

[Cliff731]

See Cliff you get the idea and I am pro 2nd and 1st amendment.

Aw, gosh, Wayne.... I bow to sueperier inteleck... :bows: :bows: :bows:

:toofunny:

[Headhunter 13]

a picture is worth a thousand words :moon:

BTW Cliff that cabinet Post or Ambassadorship is not looking good for you right now!

[Cliff731]

very well said Cliff! :bows:


Definitely well said but under this administration a lot of that can be said about a lot of businesses and industries


Thanks... I appreciate your words... :pat9xu: I do have my moments, huh?

All kidding aside, this is the sleeping issue that should have already galvanized America in a call for action. Our seniors should not be having to make decisions that involve do they want to eat or buy medication. Parents raising young children shouldn't have to delay health care just to pay rent. Boomers on the verge of retirement should not have to face ruin and loss of savings due to medical treatment costs. It all comes back to quality of life... to me, that's a right we have... or ought to enjoy in this country.

There shouldn't be a single hurting or hungry child in America tonight who finally drops off to sleep to awaken and face another day without food or medical care needed... but there will be. There shouldn't be a single "older" American who goes to bed tonight needing medication they cannot afford... or hungry because of medication they could not afford to live without... but there will be.

Our history of government programs hasn't erased poverty from our landscape... nor will they ever. However, food and medical care are so fundamental to life that these needs cannot be ignored... and with the resources we have in this country, it's a disgrace that they have been ignored.

It is and rightfully should be a conservative issue... and a liberal issue... a Democrat's issue... and a Republican's issue of first priority.

I dare say that more Americans will die this year from a lack of medical care and needed medications than any other cause... and for those most at risk, the young and the elderly, hunger doesn't lead to good health.

[Cliff731]

a picture is worth a thousand words :moon:

BTW Cliff that cabinet Post or Ambassadorship is not looking good for you right now!

Geezzzz... Wayne... did I say somethin' wrong??? :eek:



No cabinet Post??? No Ambassadorship??? Well, there ya go... :asshole:


:toofunny:

[Headhunter 13]

you could have been my Condie Rice :vomit1:

[Sinatra877]

I actually had the honor of "guarding" Condi Rice for a few days. Just our assigned Team and her other numerous FSS agents that travel with her. She toughed it out and still looked great. She's a very intelligent and articulate person. She even played Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata for us on her portable keyboard one evening. She was truly a very nice person.
She's quite a formidable person layered in diplomatic dignity while the rest of us were armed to the teeth. Her FSS personnel in suits and us in 5.11 commando wear.

I don't know how some of you may feel about a Black Female in office but I think her and McCain or Thompson would make a strong Republican ticket.

[Headhunter 13]

The facts that she is black or female are more than irrelevant to me. I see her as another flack politician for Big Oil

[Sinatra877]

She may represent the juggernaut of Big Oil but isn't all the fighting revolving about it? The world has been fighting for oil since the beginning of the 20th century. As if we really care what Middle Eastern interests are? We have interests there just like any industrialized nation. Until we develop something different...I'm praying for Hydrogen Fuel rather than ethanol (corn), the U.S. will remain stalemated for oil to run the country.

Strategically speaking, I think the members of the Security Council will start fighting each other for it in the next ten years...especially China, they are the sleeping dragon that will realize that it wants all the world's oil to support their needs. All industrialized nations will grind to a halt and then their armies will creep out to get more.

Putin of Russia has already claimed a part of the Arctic Circle for unknown reasons...soon the Antarctic region will be "claimable" against all written treaties. I'm sure the Arctic and Antarctic region has oil and Putin knows it.

India will eventually have that nuke war with Pakistan, threatening the five "Stan" countries to their west. That is if Pakistan can keep from having a civil war in the next year.

Germany will again begin a Teutonic march and creep into Eastern Europe for the Oil.

Finally, Russia, China and the US will fight for the oil fields in the Middle East. There is only a twenty year supply left. Prepare for the Brave New Order.

There has to be something we can do with all that seawater out there...it just makes sense.

Maybe I've snorted too much desert sand...who knows.

[Headhunter 13]

That is true and all well and good but the problem I have is that she like many others in this administration are for corporate America not the American people in any way shape or form. That includes Oil, Food, Pharmaceutical etc.

[Sinatra877]

There are more pressing problems and unfortunately this administration has just been plagued with problems.

I can't say as an individual I've been any better.

I left the police vocation to become a PMC making big bucks which was spawned from Big Oil but I'd still hate to see Obama or Hillary in the Oval Office.

I think I'll have to bury my weapons somewhere one day if they get into office.

[Cliff731]

The facts that she is black or female are more than irrelevant to me. I see her as another flack politician for Big Oil

Wayne... uhhh... I kinda hate like tellin' ya this... about this "Big Oil" deal... do they run this country?... not exactly... but they sure have a lot of influence and like it nor, this country runs on oil. We're kind of like "married to each other"... sort of like this photo might suggest...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/04/images/20050425-2_hw9v0295jasjpg-515h.jpg

Beyond that, I might disagree with Condi Rice at time, but I sure as hell admire her. No one ever gave her anything... she's reached her present position because of sheer determination, willpower, hardwork and intellect.

If she were just another welfare mom today, I doubt anyone would be disappointed. Bush is an exception... to he who much is given, much is expected. Condi... well, she's achieved unexpected results for a poor black girl from Alabama.

Should she decide to seek high political office in the future, she will be a most formidable opponent... and certainly have offer much "international experience".

[Headhunter 13]

There are more pressing problems and unfortunately this administration has just been plagued with problems.

I can't say as an individual I've been any better.

I left the police vocation to become a PMC making big bucks which was spawned from Big Oil but I'd still hate to see Obama or Hillary in the Oval Office.

I think I'll have to bury my weapons somewhere one day if they get into office.


Personally I would rather bury my weapons than my son. If we were really fighting for America and not profits (and not just oil, I am affiliated wiuh the Pharmaceutical industry and can say a lot about there abuses and greed including their big push for off shoring and hiring H1's) The arrogance they act with in Pharma telling us the suppliers what they will pay or they will take it offshore is just one example

Most of the problems this admin is fighting are of their own making. I am not against a profit formcoporation but I am against them ruining this great country to make extreme profits

[Headhunter 13]

Cliff, I am not blaming just Big Oil per say but the large Corporate structures that run the government. Oli is just one of them as, are Pharma, Energy, Corporate food farms, etc.

Look at the pic you posted of Bush with our saudi friends. Yet they refuse to help with the poltical problems in Iraq and they fund and arm the insurgents there. yet we are doing an arms deal with them? old story here where did 10 of the 9/11 terrorist as well as Bin Laden come from?

[Cliff731]

Cliff, I am not blaming just Big Oil per say but the large Corporate structures that run the government. Oli is just one of them as, are Pharma, Energy, Corporate food farms, etc.

Look at the pic you posted of Bush with our saudi friends. Yet they refuse to help with the poltical problems in Iraq and they fund and arm the insurgents there. yet we are doing an arms deal with them? old story here where did 10 of the 9/11 terrorist as well as Bin Laden come from?

Wayne, I'm not arguing with any of that... it's just the reality of how dependent we are on oil... and "Big Oil" has all the oil... and the Saudi's have a lock on the current world's supply for the foreseeable future. Sinatra is right in saying it's going to run out (the Saudi oil)... I'm not so convinced we're twenty years away, but it is established fact that the known world's proven and estimated reserves are shrinking... and faster than anyone is willing to tell you. When the Saudi oil is "gone", at least their enormous reserves, all they will have to offer the world is sand and a chance to come to Mecca.

The truth of Bin Laden and the 9/11 terrorist is just as you say... and conveniently somewhat ignored too is the support of groups we are fighting today by royal Saudi money.

Regarding "big" corporations and "big" business... well, they are the ruling elite of the world today. Monarchy, with the exception of a few places, gasped it's dying breath a century ago as owning real power. He who has the gold makes the rules.

[Headhunter 13]

I don't know about you but it is extremely frustrating that we can all see the problems and issues and yet we as a people are helpless

[Cliff731]

I don't know about you but it is extremely frustrating that we can all see the problems and issues and yet we as a people are helpless

And "they" know that too... "they" being the politicians in control... and the corporate fat cats in charge... :kneel:

Well, maybe not quite that bad... but there are days when it feels as such.

[Headhunter 13]

"they" act that way.

[jkroner659]

Holy shit you guys were chatting up a storm today while I was at work for 6 hours:toofunny:, took me about 20 mins to read all this. Cliff,:toofunny:, that one post you made a page or so back must have taken you 2 hours to type:toofunny:. I would comment but I'm way too tired after reading all that...maybe later:wave:.

[Cliff731]

Holy shit you guys were chatting up a storm today while I was at work for 6 hours:toofunny:, took me about 20 mins to read all this. Cliff,:toofunny:, that one post you made a page or so back must have taken you 2 hours to type:toofunny:. I would comment but I'm way too tired after reading all that...maybe later:wave:.

Jason, now tell the truth here... you're all tired from lookin' at that "monkey picture" that KPierce posted up today for you.

[Sinatra877]

Back in 2003, I was escorting a VIP from the DoS. We flew around in an old Hind helicopter because it's highly armored and will take anything short of a Stinger shot and Hinds scare the shit out of Afghans since the Russian occupation. This DoS employee had the misfortune of going throughout Afghanistan and paying off/bribing the tribal warlords in "script" monies not to infringe on American operations in the area and to continuously grow poppies/opium fields for "American Interests".

The Pharmacutical companies make pain killers from opiates right...like Hydrocodone and Lortab...which are about the same thing.

Here's the deal. Another portion of another companies contract was to pillage and slash and burn the opiate crop of warlords whom were sympathetic to Osama Bin Laden's group. While five miles away, they were disregarding the gigantic crop of poppies that were aligned with US interests. From what I heard, they were selling the crop to large gov't sponsered pharmacutical companies to make our painkillers.

My question is; Why didn't we just haul in the crop of the bad guy's stuff and use that too? It would've been a bigger haul and therefore the pharmacutical companies wouldn't be as expensive overall to anyone who uses the stuff.

It is a maddening case of catch up. There are so many confused op's out there that we are fighting against "allied" nations now. Pakistan is about to blow up into a radical Muslim State. Musharraf was just a puppet dictator that we put into power in order to put a staging area at.

For interesting browsing try looking this up: www.iraqforsale.org and www.shadowcompany.com

[KPierce]

What every citizen needs to realize is that the Government is the biggest business in the country. Government has ceased being an institution for the people. Now, whether anyone likes it's or not, we work to keep the government going instead of the government working for us.

Also everyone needs to realize that most of the money in this country is controlled by a very very small portion of the total population. Whenever that is the case, the rules will only benefit those in control. After all we left England and came to this country so that we could decide how to live our own lives. The ruling classes in England had the best of everything including alcohol and drugs and never worried about having to do anything when they had peasents to do it for them. Peasents were kept in line by force.

Now in our country, much the same thing exists. While we do have liberties here that didn't exist with our forefathers in merry old England. We once again find ourselves living under a lot of laws that make it tough on the average joe while making it easier for the wealthy and big corporations to do what they like.

Look at all the special interests making money hand over fist in Iraq. Look at people who make millions a year and can still pay less taxes, proportionately, than either you or me do. Look at all the new taxes added to the books everyday, that just keep taking more money from those of us who need it the most.

The Fed Reserve just pumped in a lot of money to the stock market to help it stabalize. And while I know that a lot of us have stocks, the biggest benefit are to those individuals and companies who have a disproportionate amount of stocks as it relates to the average person.

If we were to be truly equal in this country, then everyone would pay the same % of taxes and face the same penalties for the same crimes. But we don't.

Until people wake up and make their voices heard by voting and my pushing for changes in goverment and big corporations then sadly, I don't things will ever get better. To be honest I can see things getting worse if they don't start changing soon.

Personally I think Fred Thompson is the man we need. And while some here think Ron Paul is a bit out there I have listened to what he has to say and I can't say that I disagree with any of it. Making government smaller and less invasive to peoples lives, while actually turning government back around to being for the people instead of people for the government sounds liek a good deal to me. Also a flat % tax is something I always felt should have been done.

So I am hoping that my vote will matter in this next election and hopefully we can get this country going in the right direction. After all we have been going in the wrong direction for far too long.

[jkroner659]

That was very well said Kpierce, and most if not all of it is true. What's that saying...A person is smart but people are dumb. The people elected Bush twice now, and now they are just realizing...hey, you really do not represent what we the people are. For some reason I see the mass of the voters electing Giuliani, Hillary or Obama in that order. I want Ron Paul myself because he knows the truth about the Federal Reserve and knows it's unconstitutional to have a unapportioned Federal Income tax .

He would also like to see the Government make their own money since we the people would not have to pay all that interest to a group of banks when we can make it on our own. The Federal Reserve is a big problem and everyone should research just what they are and what they do. I don't know much about Thompson but I will look into him alot of people(gun people anyways) talk about him in a positive light.

[RiverFisher]

So I am hoping that my vote will matter in this next election and hopefully we can get this country going in the right direction. After all we have been going in the wrong direction for far too long.

Your vote DOES matter, and always has mattered. It is the parties telling people that their votes don't matter, or that you are throwing your vote away by voting for an independant. When someone tells you that your vote doesn't matter or that you are throwing it away, they are AFRAID of your vote, and a wise man would seek to know the reasons why.

It took me quite a while to read through this thread and it is very late, so I am going to play the midnight card and not do anything constructive, and take a few potshots just for fun.

Hillary? She is the epitome of the politician. She does not want what is best for this country, she only wants to be the first female president. Screw that! After all, Bill wouldn't.

Condi is really smart, but I'm afraid she has sold out to big corporations. Although I find the gap between her front teeth strangely attractive....

Healthcare- There is no reason that we cannot provide affordable access to healthcare for every single American. We just have to find a truly American way of achieving this goal, not by following a model that has failed elsewhere. Oh, and Michael Moore is fat!

Obama? Interesting. He has that cult of personality that voters just seem to like.

Rudy? He hates guns. Period, end of story!

Ron Paul- perhaps, but probably a bit too radical for the general populace to swallow this soon. Things may have to get a lot worse before the average person listens to his perspective.

Mitt?-Most Americans are ignorant of his religion, and too lazy to investigate further.

Fred- If you are going to play, get in the game already! Besides I like actors who run for office, it just seems to satisfy my sense of irony.

McCain-Thank you for your service to our country. Now go home and relax.

Colin Powell? We should be so fortunate to have a man of his integrity enter the race. That integrity is the thing that keeps him from entering the race.

In the end, I am beginning to believe that we need WAYNE as our benevolent leader.:speechless:

[KPierce]

I guess I should have been a been more specific in stating that I hoped my vote would count. Of course all votes do. What I was alluding to was the situation in the last election. Even though Bush had not won the popular vote in Florida the courts gave him the win. Not only that but in the insuing investigations, there were found to be many votes counted from people who were dead before the election was ever held.

Until we can be certain that our interests and opinions are truthfully expressed. It is endemic of every individual to put pressure on those that are supposed to represent us, to so appropiately.

I am uncertain where it began, but it seems anymore that those people we do put into office somehow get the idea, that now they are in office they know what is best for us. Even if we tell them something different, they seem to know and do otherwise.

In order for us to get things running the way we want, we must speak clearly in a loud voice. And we must not be willing to settle for the lessor of two evils when we want something better.

[jkroner659]

Kpierce and RiverFisher please look at my thread about electronic voting machines... in this political section...