Abuse Of Police Authority Part 2...

[Dash Riprock]

I'm all for the dash cams cops have in their car. I can appreciate the fact it documents each stop and events. What I can't stand though, is they can turn these things off any time they want.

In this video it's the citizen that has a camera mounted. I have been considering having hidden front, rear and side cameras installed in my cars for a while now. I'll likely have it done within the next couple of months.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2715792117793977759&hl=en

I don't think an unpaid suspension is good enough for this asshole...

[Headhunter 13]

Some people are born to be assholes and unfortunately some of them become LEOs making a hard job hard for the good ones

[Sinatra877]

At first, I was angry at the kid 'cause I'm solely looking at the POV of the Cop. The kid was questioning the cop, being a smart ass and he could've just said yes sir and got his license. The cop would have ran him and all's well. The cop would have tipped his hat and everyone has a good night.

This 20 year old, with his baited hook...got under a skin of a Police Sergeant whom sounded like he was restraining himself from beating the shit outta this kid and would rather taunt him rather than take him to jail for "resisting w/o violence" or "disruption of an investigation" or "incooperation with an Officer's duty". He should have just shut his mouth and just took the kid to jail. I'll admit it. I've done it. I've taken more than my fair share of smart asses but this Cop fell for the oldest baited hook in history so he's gonna get fired. This is why we have sooo many kids whom just tell Cops, to fuck off and why our society is degrading as a whole. We are so anti-government now, no one trusts anyone anymore.

This 20 year old has baited the hook and an experienced Sergeant Policeman is pulled off the street forever. Yeah, the Cop had a bad attitude and a person whom is so easily aggitated by a smart ass kid in NJ without something better to do got him. Now they'll replace him with a 21-year old flunkee that they didn't want last year with no experience and the department liability insurance will advise him never to take a risk again. Therefore also decreasing the level of police intervention and protection in the area. Smartass + Napoleon complex = no protection for anyone.

[Dash Riprock]

The first video I posted was from a news site and only showed a few seconds of it. I was very shocked to find the whole thing and learn that piece of shit actually arrested the guy.

I hope that video lives on because if that guy is able to return to his job he has a short life ahead of him. He'll pull that shit one time too many and will get exactly what he deserves out of it and when they try to pull that "fallen hero" bullshit I hope someone digs up that video and shows just what kind of "hero" the prick was.

Yeah, you're right though, that kind of scum does make the good guys look bad... Very bad!

[Sinatra877]

There are always a few assholes on the Departments that I served in. Once I had a Wifebeater all calmed down, cuffed and stuffed in the back of my cruiser. An FTO brought his rookie too the scene. I asked him to tell the Rookie to make sure this guy didn't get riled up any. During a DV there are very high emotions and anger.

I went back in for ten minutes to talk to the neighbors and witnesses getting statement affidavits. I come back and the FTO (whom had always been aggressive) goaded my arrestee so much now that he was kicking out my windows. Next thing I know, the Rookie shoots his taser. Ah Fuck! You guys have no idea how much paperwork is attached to all this shit already.

After everything settles down, I get back to the department, I lodge an internal complaint against this FTO. First, he's responsible for him and his Rookie. Second, he goaded his Rookie to do it. Third, he is portraying a negative Police image and fourth, he has just taught the Rookie it was OK to do that.

One day, the Rookie cop comes up to me and sincerely apologized. I told him that if he didn't know the difference between right and wrong that evening he didn't need to be here or any police job. I sincerely told him that if he ever showed up on one of my scenes again, I'd kick his young ass so hard his breath would smell like Kiwi polish. The FTO and I were merely tolerant with each other and the department took sides in a quiet way. The FTO was de-moted back too patrol duties. It alienated me but I was fine with that. With the knowledge of 8 years of service as a policeman, I was responsible for nearly hundreds of prison years given to criminals and I only had to go to court trial once a year because I wrote a very detailed, articulate report. It was iron-clad.

I'm so glad that I'm not a Cop anymore. God must've given me a second chance as a soldier of fortune. There are too many liabilities involved now.

[Headhunter 13]

It appears that the above video is going to be shown soon on CNN on the Wolf (I am a GOP kiss ass) Blitzer's Situation Room

[Dash Riprock]

Trust me, there's nothing I loathe more than a smartass, but if you listen he's been harrassed by the cops before, which he won a settlement.
When someone pulls into a public lot minding their business I don't think it's too much to ask that the cop tells him why he's in his face.

As you watch the beginning of the video the guy looks like he's driving properly, uses a turn signal and all that shit. What he did before that who knows, but I would think if he did anything at all that cop would have been on his ass as he turned into the lot, not a minute later.

I've had cops that were very nice, polite and professional. I NEVER catch an attitude, but I do ask why I was pulled over, which doesn't happen often... Maybe twice in the last 10 years and both were pretty cool. But, when I ask why don't expect an attitude. Just why he pulled me over.

Some cops seem to forget people do have rights and being a smartass, as much as I hate it myself, isn't a crime and that does not give the cop the right to put him in jail.

For every hour that kid was in jail that cop should get a year. He's crooked, has a dangerous dispostion, he violated an American citizens rights and that alone should be a highly punishable crime.

If he does return to the streets what happens if he comes across this kid again? Who's to say he won't actually look for him and create another issue, only this time someone gets hurt or killed?

[Sinatra877]

Yeah, he was caught red handed being a dick too the kid. I can't condone that. Can I understand his position? Definitely.

Was the lot really public or was it posted closed after 7 pm or something. Truth is, none of us know right now. I don't think the cop would have turned on his lights unless he had a articulable reason for the original traffic stop. That's Cop 101. Everything else would be tarnished unless he could articulate that reason.

It's a simple formulae: Articulable suspicion into active investigation to probable cause then arrest then collection of evidence for the prosecution. If you break the chain, you tarnish anything that comes afterwards. So I'm sure the Sgt. had a reason to ask the kid for his license. He did tell the kid that he was a suspicious vehicle/car. But he got railed into a verbal fight which brought out his unprofessional side.

He clearly asked the Kid for his license to run it. I heard him ask for the license. If the Kid complied, everyone would have had a good night. The kid didn't comply and immediately started questioning the cop. I would have said to this youngster that I was going to run a check of the license. But the kid persisted and pushed, maybe the Sgt. had a fight with his Wife that day and this kid pushed him over the edge? Either way, the kid had his revenge and the Sgt. took the bait, hook, line and sinker.

[Dash Riprock]

I have to disagree. I don't think it would have ended if the kid just handed over the license when first asked. However, as soon as the he got of the car he apparently gave him the license as he didn't get his head caved in. I personally believe the cop was out of control and pissed off before he ever pulled in behind that kid.

Let's say that kid didn't have a camera. It was his word against that cops and as we already know the video and audio the cop so arrogantly spouted off about conveniently came up "missing", what would have happened then?

That kid would still be in jail for no telling what that piece of shit made up. That is wrong on so many levels. A normal mind doesn't think like that. It takes a sick, twisted and warped individual to even let those words fall out of their mouth.

Do these people not realize the long term effects of something like that? Cages are designed for the criminal element, not for cops who want to show someone who's boss and throw bogus charges on them.

Those police dash cams and audio mics, as I said in my first post, are great, but it's clear they are there primarily for police safety and not the general public. They should not be able to be turned off or accessed by the cop or anyone in the department. Let a private company start observing this shit and I bet we can weed out the good from the bad very quickly.

[jkroner659]

Every dash cam I'm aware of only the supervisor has the key to the box where the controls are...Sinatra aren't I right???

[Dash Riprock]

It probably varies from state to state, but here they can be turned on and off with a simple push of a button. It's been an issue more times than I can count.

In fact it was such a problem that when they cut the video the audio still recorded... So they fixed that... One button kills them both at the same time now.
:vomit1:

[jkroner659]

Ya the only real way to use them for everyone benefit(good people's at least) is to only have the OIC (officer in charge) have the key to all the box's. The officer should only be able to adjust the camera from side to side that's it.

[Sinatra877]

I know this post is long but it's worth reading it.

Every dash cam I'm aware of only the supervisor has the key to the box where the controls are...Sinatra aren't I right???
It probably varies from state to state, but here they can be turned on and off with a simple push of a button. It's been an issue more times than I can count.

Both of you are right. Depending on the size and grants for the department. You must remember that this was what? A Rutgers University Campus Police? I'm sure Rutgers can afford them. Dashcams were originally designed to protect the Officer from liability issues like excessive force or unprofessional conduct. Clearly this Sergeant had a worm in his ass. There may already be bad blood between that kid and the campus police or the kid wouldn't have too resort to building his own camera. Besides, we're still talking about New Jersey and the New Jersey metro areas. There's a long history of New Jersey shore towns changing names every six blocks because it belonged to one NY family/crimeboss or another.

The original units are like pager units on a duty belt. It is supposed to be turned on just as soon as police action is taken, an assist with a chase, a traffic stop, or my infamous gun find on a female biker with that .32 up her cooter. Those are situations that can get a Cop in alot of trouble so initially they were designed to show as evidence that they didn't do anything wrong. For instance, if that biker chick cried that I sexually battered her during the search, I now have a tape to show to a jury that I had reasonable suspicion that she had a firearm and that I called for a female Officer to come on scene but one wasn't available and that I had my hand in her pants long enough to pull out the pistol. It can really help in cases like that.

However, over the course of the past 15 years or so, some "aggressive cops" didn't like being taped so they had the option of turning off their cameras and microphones. Basically they were covering their own ass when he/she fucked up. Now the technology is written so that the camera and mic will automatically turn on after the driver's side door is opened with the engine on. That prevents some cops from fucking with them but one can still cheat the system. An officer can just conduct "business" outside the view of the camera and simply unplug his microphone. Initially the video was on videotape and we marked it in as evidence with a case number on it for later review but then again, it could be cheated because we let the wolves check the wolves. They are using Portable Hard Drive technology and only command staff will be able to extract the information.

Ya the only real way to use them for everyone benefit(good people's at least) is to only have the OIC (officer in charge) have the key to all the box's. The officer should only be able to adjust the camera from side to side that's it.

Every shift has a commander, be it a Sergeant, Lieutenant or Senior Officer in Charge. Question is, whether or not they should have access too them as well. Wolves guarding the Wolves only inflate the probability that aggressive or dirty cops won't get caught. It opens a large can of worms...should the PD even have the right to extract the videos? Or should a civilian body, Police oversight committee be formed? It costs a lot of money to maintain that way. Regarding the movement of the camera, would you take time to move the camera when there is a suspect only 30 feet from you? It's a safety issue.

I have to disagree. I don't think it would have ended if the kid just handed over the license when first asked. However, as soon as the he got of the car he apparently gave him the license as he didn't get his head caved in. I personally believe the cop was out of control and pissed off before he ever pulled in behind that kid. Let's say that kid didn't have a camera. It was his word against that cops and as we already know the video and audio the cop so arrogantly spouted off about conveniently came up "missing", what would have happened then?

I can't really say if it was a legal stop or not. The Cop claims that there had been a rash of car burglaries in the area. He may had orders to stop all cars in the area (good example: DUI checkpoint). There are alot of scenarios that could've influence the stop but the point that I made earlier, there is a "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine. If it was an illegal stop, it will be fought in court. If I lied to get a stop on a known drug dealer what happens if I find a dead body and a half ton of cocaine in the back seat? It's all inadmissible in court because the legal pretext for the traffic stop was not met. I would lose my LEO license and branded a liar. Why do that and risk your career? If they sling dope today, I'm sure I'll have a reason to stop them tomorrow just as well with a legal traffic stop and get them really good. Don't get me wrong, I would've done everything in my power at the time too see if this driver screws up for me to stop them. In Florida, there is about a thousand things I could stop you for (if I was still a active cop). Assuming that this former Sergeant knew his laws and could articulate the reasons for the stop...I'd hope he was or he shouldn't be a Cop yet alone a Sergeant...I don't think he would have made an illegal stop on a whim. At least one shouldn't risk their careers unless they had a legit reason. Without the articulable suspicion, everything else is moot. That's the first thing one has to establish for the case to run it's course.

I would have kept alert and told the kid why he was being stopped and detained temporarily once he asked. The Sergeant probably wanted to loudly counsel the kid in a loud fashion. He probably didn't want to do the paperwork to make the arrest. Civilians (no offense Guys) don't understand that the first thing they teach you is that when you're on scene, you are in charge. Not the driver/suspect. You should make it very clear too them. This Sergeant did this very unprofessionally. That's all he was guilty of at the time. Other than the fact that he made himself look like a real Dick. What's the point of reading the riot act to someone whom wanted to deliberately aggitate you?

I would have just asked for his license politely. If the kid refused to let me get it, there are a few options here in Florida. Remember this video was in NJ and I'm sure that some of their laws are different. Here in Florida, I would have had a plethura of laws I could've charged the driver with...

1. Got his name and gender, DOB and ran his plate with the make of the car and his driver's license status.

Whether or not the kid was cooperative or not, one still could've...

1A. Gave him a ticket for Failure to Produce Driver's License and/or Registration and/or Insurance Card upon LEO request.

1B. If he lied too me...Charged him with Lying too an LEO and option 1A, 2A & 2B listed below.

2. If I could've really articulated the reason for the stop and whether or not the driver was incooperative; I still could've...

2A. Charged him with Resistance of an Officer w/o violence.

2B. Impeding an Officer while conducting an investigation. (I would assume that the Sgt. was investigating who the driver was or if the vehicle was correctly registered and if it was stolen).

Like I've said many times in the LEO section. It all depends if the Officer is experienced and articulate in their arrest affidavit. Experienced Officers wouldn't have let a 20 year old get under their skin. You could have busted balls but I learned early on that you catch more flys with honey than with vinegar. If that Officer was experienced, he still could've articulated the situation well enough to make those charges stick. Evidently this Kid had an axe too grind and this Cop was so oblivious too the fact that the kid had a camera too. He'll have a hard time explaining why his camera wasn't on...that is if he had one at all. An experienced cop would have seen it with all the lights on the car.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending that Officer's actions but that Kid went too that area with the sole intent of inflaming the situation. No matter when or where, a traffic stop is never routine. I would never volunteer information to someone especially if they didn't ask for it. If asked, I would feel uncomfortable but I would've told him why because it is the moral thing to do. You don't have too tell them and on occasions if the Driver was really suspicious, I wouldn't have. I just have to know that I was right...not the suspect. That's also a mistake on my part. One should never guage suspicions based on culture, race or gender. Anyone can pull out a gun and shoot you. That Sergeant told the kid why he wanted his license, he told him that he was a suspicious vehicle/car. The only mistake I saw was his arrogant Napoleon complex.

Had I been asked why by that kid, I would've told him "Sir, I'm presently detaining you temporarily while I run your vehicle registration and license too see if you're car was stolen and if you have any warrants. Please give me your license and we can get it onto business." It could've been that simple but tipping your hand to anyone is very dangerous. Push comes to shove, if I stopped a car and if that kid resisted me like that and refused to cooperate, I could've asked him to step out of the car and searched him for my safety (with articulable reason) and could've gotten his license anyway. I know that Dash disagrees with me but the only thing I found rotten was this Cop's attitude. Assuming the stop was legal, everything was kosher up until his blowout.

[KPierce]

Actually if you take the link that is posted on the video's page you will go to a newspapaer article about this incident. He was in the parking lot to pick up a friend who was getting off from work.
Personally I don't think the kid did anything wrong. I don't even thin he was a smart ass. Asking why you are being stopped is not a crime. Refusing to tell a police officer your personal business is also not a crime. The fact that the officer got out of hand the way he did, the threats he made about charges he could come up with and then finally areesting the guy, only shows how little disreguard the officer actually has for the law he's supposed to be upholding. ALso when the kid first pulled in he had to go onto the shoulder of the road to avoid hitting the police car. Why would any cop be essentially blocking a road like that without having his lights on. And if it was because of something going on why weren't there other officers around ?
Personally I think the officer was looking to arrest someone and he succeeded in arresting this kid, though for nothing more than standing up for his own rights. If you listen closely the kid does try to explain this to the officer. The kid never gets loud or angry.

I would type more but time to head to work.

[Sinatra877]

He lost his cool with the entire situation. It is not the way we are trained. He deserves to get fired for that. Even if the kid was being uncooperative at first, the Officer lost his cool. In my humble opinion, it was very rookie'ish. Had he been a experienced Officer he wouldn't let it get under his skin. Now he'll be stripped that title.

I did find out where the stop was. It was the St. Louis P.D. not a NJ department.

[Dash Riprock]

Ok, how about this one?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2585482423715017278

[Sinatra877]

Ok, how about this one?

OK Dash, what gives here? I didn't see anything out of the ordinary regarding this DUI checkpoint. Sometimes they pick every car, sometimes they pick one of every five cars to thoroughly check. Some states also allow warrantless searches of a conveyance/car without an articulable suspicion.

Give me a brief on what happened?

[Dash Riprock]

I was hoping for more opinions before I gave my 2 cents, but here's the way I see it.

The skinny is, the guy went to a DUI checkpoint, the cop asked him where he was going. The guy replied, "I don't wish to discuss my personal business with you, officer."

I'm actually torn on this one. On one hand it's a good idea to answer a cops questions. If you don't have anything to hide what's the big deal, right?

However, is it really a question that should be asked? Is it really their business to ask that question? If a citizen is on his or her way to commit a crime are they going to tell them that?

So what's the point in asking bullshit questions?

The answer is simple. Ask questions and if they don't want to answer or if the answer isn't satisfactory to the cop that gives them a good reason to search the person and their car.

Just another reason to harass the public.

This guy wasn't picked out as a random search. He was harassed because he simply didn't feel the need to share his personal business with the cop... That became perfectly clear at the end of the video.

I can't get on board with these so called DUI check points. But since they do exist and people accept them as being ok and since these are DUI checks they should only make people pull over if they smell alcohol... NOT because someone doesn't want to tell them where they're going or where they've been...

[Sinatra877]

I was hoping for more opinions before I gave my 2 cents, but here's the way I see it.

The skinny is, the guy went to a DUI checkpoint, the cop asked him where he was going. The guy replied, "I don't wish to discuss my personal business with you, officer."

I'm actually torn on this one. On one hand it's a good idea to answer a cops questions. If you don't have anything to hide what's the big deal, right?

However, is it really a question that should be asked? Is it really their business to ask that question? If a citizen is on his or her way to commit a crime are they going to tell them that?

So what's the point in asking bullshit questions?

The answer is simple. Ask questions and if they don't want to answer or if the answer isn't satisfactory to the cop that gives them a good reason to search the person and their car.

Just another reason to harass the public.

This guy wasn't picked out as a random search. He was harassed because he simply didn't feel the need to share his personal business with the cop... That became perfectly clear at the end of the video.

I can't get on board with these so called DUI check points. But since they do exist and people accept them as being ok and since these are DUI checks they should only make people pull over if they smell alcohol... NOT because someone doesn't want to tell them where they're going or where they've been...

He can file a complaint but I'm sure it will fall upon deaf ears. Now don't get me wrong, I don't condone unprofessional behavior from Officers. But what's the harm of asking "where are you going?"

Most folks usually tells the truth. If that's the case lemme run your license, registration and POI. No big deal. They go their happy way.

If I received the response to I'd rather not talk about my personal life, I'm sorry but that doesn't click with me at all. He may not like it but I would've pulled him too the side and ran his stuff anyway for the usual stuff. We're taught that deception is pretty easy to catch in a persons body language. Since I couldn't see the driver's actions nor his eyes, I have nothing to work with other than his paperwork. It's legal. Some states don't like it and some states says that anything with wheels can be searched without warrant. I've busted folks in their mobile homes because it had wheels. Even though it is a household by most folks standards, I can use the law for my benefit and make the search without warrant.

Some folks (the criminals) will usually come up with some cockeyed story or withhold information. After hearing this guy say that he won't talk about his personal information, it would have behooved me to pull him over, ask him to step out and get his hardcopies to run a background, car registration, wants & warrants check. A long time ago I was in a DUI checkpoint. One of the Officer's there checked out a driver as he pulled in. He was asked where he was headed and he gave him a bullshit answer because if he was headed there, he would've gone the other direction. Turns out the car was stolen and he was wanted in another county for beating the bejeesus out of his ex-Wife. So, if a few feathers got ruffled that night but we did catch a criminal and a good amount of folks that shouldn't be driving.

It was legal. Sorry but there it is.