customizedcreationz
12-03-2008, 08:38 AM
Ok guys, I took 4 P6's to the range.
This one , which is now Ray S.'s gun ( had to test it out for you !! ).
http://customizedcreationz.com/images/600_ken_l_edit_me_with_shadows_sharpen_3_copy.jpg
and three others with various mods.
All but one had the feed ramp mod and with about 450 some rounds through the guns ( 110 each roughly ) the non mod Gun #1 feed ramp failed almost every hollow point of 147 gr and most of the 124 gr ones.
The other three ( #2, #3 , #4 ) fired every single hollow point we fed them. We tested Black Talon 147 gr, Winchester Ranger 147, Starfire 147, Buffalo Bore 147 +P+, Gold Dot 147 and 124 gr, Winchester 124 gr and Federal Hydra Shok 124 gr. A few misc 115 gr no names were tossed in the hat.
Ray, I am proud to announce that your gun was hands down the favorite of the night. 5 people shot all these guns ( well six if you include myself ) 1 NRA instructor, 1 local Officer, 2 civi's with gun experience and 1 person who had never shot a gun before that night ( they were with the 2 other civi's ). Ray, your gun was butter smooth, acted like a high class , high dollar gun ( which it is !! )!! Man I am tempted to refund your money and keep it for myself!!:D Just kidding. It was dead nuts on accuracy wise and was a pure nail driver. Even the inexperienced shooter was able to hold 3-4 inch groups with it free hand at about 30-40 ft. In fact the gun was so sweet , the Instructor is having me do one for him.
Gun #1 1986
P6 everything stock Sights 8 F 7 R
Gun #2 1981
P6 Feed Ramp Mod (http://customizedcreationz.com/feedrampmodification.html), Medium Trigger (http://customizedcreationz.com/firearms/sigp6p225parts.html), Stainless Steel Guide Rod (http://customizedcreationz.com/sigguiderods.html),New Mepro light night sights 8f 8r (http://customizedcreationz.com/nightsights.html), and 225 spring
Gun #3 1978
P6 Feed Ramp Mod (http://customizedcreationz.com/feedrampmodification.html), Short Trigger (http://customizedcreationz.com/firearms/sigp6p225parts.html) , Stainless Steel Guide Rod (http://customizedcreationz.com/sigguiderods.html) , New Mepro light night sights 8f 8r (http://customizedcreationz.com/nightsights.html), and 225 spring, Stage 1 Action work (http://customizedcreationz.com/actionwork.html).
Gun #4 ( Ray's ) 1983
P6 Feed Ramp Mod (http://customizedcreationz.com/feedrampmodification.html), Skeleton Trigger (http://customizedcreationz.com/firearms/sigp6p225parts.html) , Stainless Steel Guide Rod (http://customizedcreationz.com/sigguiderods.html), New Mepro light night sights 8f 8r (http://customizedcreationz.com/nightsights.html), All new springs ( 225 spring ), Stage 2 Reliability Action Work (http://customizedcreationz.com/actionwork.html) , CCAS Melt Anti Snag (http://customizedcreationz.com/ccasantisnagmods.html), Reverse Two Tone Cerakote Refinishing (http://customizedcreationz.com/services/cerakoterefinishing.html) , Marschal Grips (http://www.marschalgrips.com/) and Polished Barrel (http://customizedcreationz.com/firearms/sigservicesandparts.html).
All the guns were shot in order of 1 through 4 by everyone. So there was an honest idea of how the upgrading of the mods worked.
Gun #1 was barely liked by anyone. Which is no surprise. Though when it did fire more then two or three shots in a row, it grouped nicely and fairly. It did shoot the Gold Dot 124 with the least amount of issues, though it still had issues with it. It ran the 115 fmj with no issues.
Gun #2 People instantly were impressed with it. I think mostly because it ate the ammo with out the stoppages and failures. But the trigger was a lot better. Groups were nice, if not much different then Gun #1 but being able to function and trigger pull and finger placement was noted by two of them as being better. ( the instructor and officer )
Gun #3 This is when the oohs started. This is much better then the first two were being heard from everyone. Again groups were nice. Again not hugely different then the first two accuracy wise. The novice liked the trigger on this one the best for reach, but liked the skeleton trigger smoothness. The short trigger was a little short for the Officer. But he was impressed with the difference with the slight action work. At this point the questions of how much is a gun like this one were coming.
Gun #4 This is when the first shot, the shooter would pause and look over at me and just nod, or say "yeah....". Yes after everyone was done shooting gun #4, even the beginner, the questions rolled. What is the difference between this gun and the rest. Why is it so much different and better, and how could it be so much different ? Nice groups out of this, and I would dare say , maybe the nicest groupings of any of the P6's I've ever had. Everyone liked the Grips. Those are a bigger winner among everyone , and the trigger was perfect match. Sights I hit that nail on the head and those helped out a lot. No failures, no hesitations , nothing. 100% reliability with all the ammo feed time in and out. Accuracy didn't drift as much from mag to mag like it did a little with the other ammo. And I think the grips are a slight reason for that. Since they seem to fit the hand better then the stock grips. Though the smaller person said they felt a little big and wondered if they made slight smaller ones in the back strap area. I know this wasn't ransom rest testing. But it seemed to be the easiest for everyone to shoot accurately.
So there you have a quick run of the 4 that were shot and the differences they made. The feed ramp mod was great. The triggers most people liked the skeleton trigger feel, though the novice liked the short trigger. Hand size ranged from Small ( novice ) to med and large ( officer ). But all were able to handle the P6's very well. No headaches or issues of any kind with any of them. The test was run with DA mode and then SA mode after a DA mode first shot. So it was tested in first DA mode with each shot de-cocked and then in DA first shot and SA second shot. I should have taken the camera and gotten pictures but this was kinda an impromptu event. I didn't plan on having people meet me there, they just happened to be there and who could complain when I paid for the ammo and range time !! I just happened to get lucky with the instructor and officer being there. And of course other people were asking is this a free demo ? And they wanted to get in on the act also. Shoot maybe I should have brought 2-3 more P6's with me ? LOL ;) I should have been a little more note worthy and noted how many rounds between jams Gun #1 ran, but things happened kinda fast and since they were holding all my guns I was a little nervous, though the instructor was a big help. Still you guys probably know what I mean with letting other people shoot one gun, but having a group of unknowns shooting 4. Well I was a little anxious. But it turned out to be a great test and everyone had fun and I learned a bit from watching what people were doing and seeing how and what they liked.
If I had to list improvements in order of what I would do to a gun that someone didn't want to invest big dollars into:
First I would say first feed ramp mod if your gun doesn't shoot HP's.
Second I would go for the trigger swap and spring change. Everyone liked the 225 spring. With the action job and spring, I am not sure how necessary it would be to go to the 19lb spring most the average person. Consensus says short trigger for small to medium hands and Medium or Skeleton trigger type size for med to larger hands.
Third tie Grip swap for those with med/small hands to up to large hands. And those with smaller/small hands, see if you can find someone with Marschal's before you buy them. You might not like how big they are in the back strap area.
Third tie New Mepro light night sights 8f 8r (http://customizedcreationz.com/nightsights.html). Sight change either stock contrast sights , or night sights for those that like those. Reliability action job for those that want to spend a little more money , but from what the general consensus was again , well worth it.
Fourth For those that want the ultimate looks and feel, Gun #4. People liked the CCAS Melt Anti Snag (http://customizedcreationz.com/ccasantisnagmods.html), and said it gave the gun a more modern look, and of course the officer liked the melt job for its intended purpose of concealed carry. And the Stage 2 Reliability Action Work (http://customizedcreationz.com/actionwork.html) is a nice option to get the old girl up to snuff action wise. And of course giving her some new clothes with the Cerakote is cool too. By the time you spend the money, your still under the cost of a brand new Sig without all the bells and whistles. And you have all new parts and custom work done on it. So these P6's make great guns for the money. Probably the best deal on a Sig or any hand gun of this type I ve seen in years.
What made this test a fun thing was I had 25 mags there, so things were all loaded up and ready to go and while one was shooting another was being loaded for the next gun. Without that many mags, it would have been a little less enjoyable.
All in all, it was fun and interesting and I am very thankful to everyone for their input. It was cool to have a good amount of varied experience and I got lucky with the instructor being there. Officers usually shoot there frequently anyways. And it was cool to see someone there with their girlfriend teaching her to shoot for the first time.
The question that rang the most , is why did they ever discontinue such a cool gun. The novice also shot my 226 ,229 and 220 in .40 .357sig and .45 to see the differences in the guns and ammo choices. You should have seen her eyes light up shooting the 229 with the .357sig barrel LOL. And they werent hot rounds either. The Buffalo Bore +P+ rounds I was a little hesitant to shoot through the P6's, but man those were a blast, pun intended. I also brought my 556 and I didnt think I was going to get it back from the officer LOL.
If anyone has any questions or comments please feel free to call or email me. I am more then willing to try and help out if I can, or for some feedback as to what you guys might think would be a good way to test next time.
Just thought I would put this out there for you guys to mull over yet another P6 range report.
** Edited to add more info **
This one , which is now Ray S.'s gun ( had to test it out for you !! ).
http://customizedcreationz.com/images/600_ken_l_edit_me_with_shadows_sharpen_3_copy.jpg
and three others with various mods.
All but one had the feed ramp mod and with about 450 some rounds through the guns ( 110 each roughly ) the non mod Gun #1 feed ramp failed almost every hollow point of 147 gr and most of the 124 gr ones.
The other three ( #2, #3 , #4 ) fired every single hollow point we fed them. We tested Black Talon 147 gr, Winchester Ranger 147, Starfire 147, Buffalo Bore 147 +P+, Gold Dot 147 and 124 gr, Winchester 124 gr and Federal Hydra Shok 124 gr. A few misc 115 gr no names were tossed in the hat.
Ray, I am proud to announce that your gun was hands down the favorite of the night. 5 people shot all these guns ( well six if you include myself ) 1 NRA instructor, 1 local Officer, 2 civi's with gun experience and 1 person who had never shot a gun before that night ( they were with the 2 other civi's ). Ray, your gun was butter smooth, acted like a high class , high dollar gun ( which it is !! )!! Man I am tempted to refund your money and keep it for myself!!:D Just kidding. It was dead nuts on accuracy wise and was a pure nail driver. Even the inexperienced shooter was able to hold 3-4 inch groups with it free hand at about 30-40 ft. In fact the gun was so sweet , the Instructor is having me do one for him.
Gun #1 1986
P6 everything stock Sights 8 F 7 R
Gun #2 1981
P6 Feed Ramp Mod (http://customizedcreationz.com/feedrampmodification.html), Medium Trigger (http://customizedcreationz.com/firearms/sigp6p225parts.html), Stainless Steel Guide Rod (http://customizedcreationz.com/sigguiderods.html),New Mepro light night sights 8f 8r (http://customizedcreationz.com/nightsights.html), and 225 spring
Gun #3 1978
P6 Feed Ramp Mod (http://customizedcreationz.com/feedrampmodification.html), Short Trigger (http://customizedcreationz.com/firearms/sigp6p225parts.html) , Stainless Steel Guide Rod (http://customizedcreationz.com/sigguiderods.html) , New Mepro light night sights 8f 8r (http://customizedcreationz.com/nightsights.html), and 225 spring, Stage 1 Action work (http://customizedcreationz.com/actionwork.html).
Gun #4 ( Ray's ) 1983
P6 Feed Ramp Mod (http://customizedcreationz.com/feedrampmodification.html), Skeleton Trigger (http://customizedcreationz.com/firearms/sigp6p225parts.html) , Stainless Steel Guide Rod (http://customizedcreationz.com/sigguiderods.html), New Mepro light night sights 8f 8r (http://customizedcreationz.com/nightsights.html), All new springs ( 225 spring ), Stage 2 Reliability Action Work (http://customizedcreationz.com/actionwork.html) , CCAS Melt Anti Snag (http://customizedcreationz.com/ccasantisnagmods.html), Reverse Two Tone Cerakote Refinishing (http://customizedcreationz.com/services/cerakoterefinishing.html) , Marschal Grips (http://www.marschalgrips.com/) and Polished Barrel (http://customizedcreationz.com/firearms/sigservicesandparts.html).
All the guns were shot in order of 1 through 4 by everyone. So there was an honest idea of how the upgrading of the mods worked.
Gun #1 was barely liked by anyone. Which is no surprise. Though when it did fire more then two or three shots in a row, it grouped nicely and fairly. It did shoot the Gold Dot 124 with the least amount of issues, though it still had issues with it. It ran the 115 fmj with no issues.
Gun #2 People instantly were impressed with it. I think mostly because it ate the ammo with out the stoppages and failures. But the trigger was a lot better. Groups were nice, if not much different then Gun #1 but being able to function and trigger pull and finger placement was noted by two of them as being better. ( the instructor and officer )
Gun #3 This is when the oohs started. This is much better then the first two were being heard from everyone. Again groups were nice. Again not hugely different then the first two accuracy wise. The novice liked the trigger on this one the best for reach, but liked the skeleton trigger smoothness. The short trigger was a little short for the Officer. But he was impressed with the difference with the slight action work. At this point the questions of how much is a gun like this one were coming.
Gun #4 This is when the first shot, the shooter would pause and look over at me and just nod, or say "yeah....". Yes after everyone was done shooting gun #4, even the beginner, the questions rolled. What is the difference between this gun and the rest. Why is it so much different and better, and how could it be so much different ? Nice groups out of this, and I would dare say , maybe the nicest groupings of any of the P6's I've ever had. Everyone liked the Grips. Those are a bigger winner among everyone , and the trigger was perfect match. Sights I hit that nail on the head and those helped out a lot. No failures, no hesitations , nothing. 100% reliability with all the ammo feed time in and out. Accuracy didn't drift as much from mag to mag like it did a little with the other ammo. And I think the grips are a slight reason for that. Since they seem to fit the hand better then the stock grips. Though the smaller person said they felt a little big and wondered if they made slight smaller ones in the back strap area. I know this wasn't ransom rest testing. But it seemed to be the easiest for everyone to shoot accurately.
So there you have a quick run of the 4 that were shot and the differences they made. The feed ramp mod was great. The triggers most people liked the skeleton trigger feel, though the novice liked the short trigger. Hand size ranged from Small ( novice ) to med and large ( officer ). But all were able to handle the P6's very well. No headaches or issues of any kind with any of them. The test was run with DA mode and then SA mode after a DA mode first shot. So it was tested in first DA mode with each shot de-cocked and then in DA first shot and SA second shot. I should have taken the camera and gotten pictures but this was kinda an impromptu event. I didn't plan on having people meet me there, they just happened to be there and who could complain when I paid for the ammo and range time !! I just happened to get lucky with the instructor and officer being there. And of course other people were asking is this a free demo ? And they wanted to get in on the act also. Shoot maybe I should have brought 2-3 more P6's with me ? LOL ;) I should have been a little more note worthy and noted how many rounds between jams Gun #1 ran, but things happened kinda fast and since they were holding all my guns I was a little nervous, though the instructor was a big help. Still you guys probably know what I mean with letting other people shoot one gun, but having a group of unknowns shooting 4. Well I was a little anxious. But it turned out to be a great test and everyone had fun and I learned a bit from watching what people were doing and seeing how and what they liked.
If I had to list improvements in order of what I would do to a gun that someone didn't want to invest big dollars into:
First I would say first feed ramp mod if your gun doesn't shoot HP's.
Second I would go for the trigger swap and spring change. Everyone liked the 225 spring. With the action job and spring, I am not sure how necessary it would be to go to the 19lb spring most the average person. Consensus says short trigger for small to medium hands and Medium or Skeleton trigger type size for med to larger hands.
Third tie Grip swap for those with med/small hands to up to large hands. And those with smaller/small hands, see if you can find someone with Marschal's before you buy them. You might not like how big they are in the back strap area.
Third tie New Mepro light night sights 8f 8r (http://customizedcreationz.com/nightsights.html). Sight change either stock contrast sights , or night sights for those that like those. Reliability action job for those that want to spend a little more money , but from what the general consensus was again , well worth it.
Fourth For those that want the ultimate looks and feel, Gun #4. People liked the CCAS Melt Anti Snag (http://customizedcreationz.com/ccasantisnagmods.html), and said it gave the gun a more modern look, and of course the officer liked the melt job for its intended purpose of concealed carry. And the Stage 2 Reliability Action Work (http://customizedcreationz.com/actionwork.html) is a nice option to get the old girl up to snuff action wise. And of course giving her some new clothes with the Cerakote is cool too. By the time you spend the money, your still under the cost of a brand new Sig without all the bells and whistles. And you have all new parts and custom work done on it. So these P6's make great guns for the money. Probably the best deal on a Sig or any hand gun of this type I ve seen in years.
What made this test a fun thing was I had 25 mags there, so things were all loaded up and ready to go and while one was shooting another was being loaded for the next gun. Without that many mags, it would have been a little less enjoyable.
All in all, it was fun and interesting and I am very thankful to everyone for their input. It was cool to have a good amount of varied experience and I got lucky with the instructor being there. Officers usually shoot there frequently anyways. And it was cool to see someone there with their girlfriend teaching her to shoot for the first time.
The question that rang the most , is why did they ever discontinue such a cool gun. The novice also shot my 226 ,229 and 220 in .40 .357sig and .45 to see the differences in the guns and ammo choices. You should have seen her eyes light up shooting the 229 with the .357sig barrel LOL. And they werent hot rounds either. The Buffalo Bore +P+ rounds I was a little hesitant to shoot through the P6's, but man those were a blast, pun intended. I also brought my 556 and I didnt think I was going to get it back from the officer LOL.
If anyone has any questions or comments please feel free to call or email me. I am more then willing to try and help out if I can, or for some feedback as to what you guys might think would be a good way to test next time.
Just thought I would put this out there for you guys to mull over yet another P6 range report.
** Edited to add more info **