WTF is going on with ammo prices?

[CBnL]

OK, in the past, Winchester 115 gr fmj's were as low as $4.99/50, $5.99-6.99/50 was acceptable but now they can't be touched for less than $10.99/50. Fiocchi 115gr fmj's are $8.99/50 at the cheapest place in town (Tulsa, OK). I've looked online and my usual place (MidWayUSA) is no cheaper. There is a gun show here in town, loaded ammo prices SUCK! (even worse than in the local stores). Even component prices were way up. Remmington Golden Saber projectiles were only about $1 more per 100 than FMJ's. I haven't reloaded 9mm's in a long time because I could always buy fully loaded at about the same cost to reload but it looks like I need to switch back to reloading. At least I still have the 10,000-20,000 empty brass (I guess that's what two 5 gallon buckets full would be close to)

[Headhunter 13]

I bought WWB value pak at walmart a couple of weeks ago for 14.99 a 100

[CBnL]

I ran over to the gun show and picked up 2,000 Remmington Golden Saber projectiles. The guy didn't have any primers... somebody yesterday bought all 37,000 the guy had. I'm going to hit the local shop up to see if they still have them at $18/1,000

[Headhunter 13]

I was thinking about getting into reloading now I have to look at my severance package to se if I want to and can drop the cash fpor the the equipemnt. If I were to want to start reloading 9mm, .40 and .45 what equipment would I need to start? Mods I am also going to post this in teh reload section

[Dash Riprock]

I read yesterday that there's an ammo shortage mainly because of the war. They said that it's causing problems with police training and stuff like that because even they are having problems getting it.

[jkroner659]

why would that effect .40 ammo? it's all 9mm and .223/.556 ammo mostly used in the war...so that's an excuse they gave...like someone else said, they are probably following the oil market since they are making a killing:pissed:

[Headhunter 13]

probably because no matter what caliber they all use brass, lead and copper, so as metals prices go up they all go up

[Dash Riprock]

There's more to ammo than just the caliber. The primers, brass and powder. If there's a shortage on any of the key components I would imagine that would affect all calibers.

I could be wrong though, it's happened before. :D

[Headhunter 13]

probably a combination of overseas military actions and both factors that David and I mentioned and who the hell knows what else

[Cliff731]

The major manufacturers of ammo have announced a price increase effective September 01, 2007.

Prices will increase an average of 15% for most calibers/types, with a few slightly less and some slightly more... this is from Winchester, Remington, CCI/Blazer and Federal.

I've seen copies of the letters... they cite rising metals and energy cost as factors. Get it while you can at current prices.

[CBnL]

I don't like progressive reloaders, too much shit going on all at the same time, too much room for error.
I have a lyman's turret press, at least that way you can get all the dies set up for a run and just rotate between them.
To get started....
Get a press... Lee single stage "O" press (steel one) for rifle, or the Lyman turret press for pistol... you can actually use that one for rifles too without any issues... O presses just take greater force easier.
Get a beam scale, like Hornady's.
Get a powder drop / measure, such as Hornady's.
Get your dies... I use Hornady's for my .308 but still use a Lee "factory crimp" die. For all pistol rounds I use Lee but I also get their factory crimp dies.
Lee case guage and trimmer unit. (if wanting ultra accuracy out of rifle, get a neck turning tool also)
I like the RCBS hand primer tool.
Tumbler.... I have a Fing expensive Scott Murry rotary tumbler that I can put about 25 lbs of brass in it... cost about $350... also have a hornady 1 gallon case tumbler I paid $60 for and it works great and is really all you need.
Also get you the Hornady hadbook of cartridge reloading, well worth it...

Say 9mm
deprime / resize (one die / action)
trim to length using Lee tool (often this is not required with handgun cartridges... but a must each time with a rifle cartridge)
press in primers
flare case neck
(then I always put into little reloading blocks or just a plastic 50 count holder like ammo comes in)
drop your 50 powder charges... weigh the first one and the last one, if both of those check out and a visual inspecion looks like all 50 in your little block are OK... then start putting on bullets...
Set a bullet in the brass... (here is where the turret press helps)
ram to seat the bullet
rotate turret to factory crimp die
ram to crimp
drop into "completed" box...

115 gr FMJ hornady, I can get 3,000 for $200
1,000 small pistol primers, $22.50 so 3,000 = $67.50
I already have 10-20,000 brass = free
Alliant Power Pistol powder... flows well, good powder...
that's about $20/lb and 1 lb will do about 1500 9mm 115 gr so 2 lbs for 3,000 = $40

a little bit of time and you have 3,000 115 gr FMJ's for $307.50 after your initial investment to get started...
BUT... you can also get a mold to be able to cast up lead bullets.
I don't shoot lead but primers and powder are cheap and can be put back... brass, got tons of... lead, have a plumber friend... so I can load up emergency ammo for about $35/1,000

lead bullets are better than no bullets at all...

I've been reloading for 20-24 years now...
up to about 6 months ago, it was almost just as cheap to buy 9mm 115 FMJ's as it was to reload them... NOT ANY MORE... much cheaper.
Additionally... what I mentioned about casting lead bullets... take an old corning wear disk, put on a camp stove outside, melt the lead, have a dipper and mold... you are good to go. You can get more trick components but the basics will do and don't cost much. Also, go to plumbing shops for lead or if you know a plumber, see him... then you can get tin also to harden the lead to whatever you want... I like going with a little harder lead then you typically find for reloading.

I have to run now but would be happy to share anything I can to anyone having any questions. I've read and practiced a lot over the years and have achieved good success.

OH, did you know they actually have used doppler radar to study the flight path of .308 projectiles to determine when they start to wobble and then when they start to tumble to determine the effective range. Google "Magnus moment" I'm sure all that stuff is still out there... :D

[CBnL]

Since we are talking about reloading and I see some mention of 5.56 aka .223
If someone is looking at starting to reload that... I might be willing to help establish their initial brass supply for a reasonable price.
Anymore I deal more with .308... only have one AR15 rifle and one AR15 pistol and don't really shoot either very much (but still have probably 5,000 rounds) so all my empty brass I'm not very worried about.
Anyway, I'd have to check to see how many thousands of it I have up in the attic... but if someone is interested, let me know and I'll see and figure out a price.

[Headhunter 13]

Thanks for the info

[CBnL]

Forgot to mention but you've probably already seen it...
Over on Rifles, Bolt Action, the thread ~going for accuracy~ shows my current accuracy rifle.
People just don't realize everything that goes into accuracy.
Barrel whip and bullet velocity for example. As soon as the primer detonates, the powder starts to burn and pressure builds (pushing the projectile down the barrel) there is a wave sent through the barrel. I'm sure you've seen the wave sent through the dirt (or felt it) from a large munition being dropped. Same thing in the barrel, you have an explosion and a resulting pressure wave effecting everything around it. The barrel starts to "whip" (be that up/down, left/right, circular, etc... ) if your projectile is not traveling the EXACT same speed as every other one, it will leave the end of the barrel when the barrel whip has it in a different position (at a different angle off the center line of the bore). This is why people like bull barrels... they are stiffer and have less whip. Also fluted barrels, where they increase surface area to dissipate heat more rapidly, they also help increase the rigidity of the barrel.
Now there are different views on that where some state that the less material means more ability to bend/flex/stretch... that in itself is argued but look at top fuel dragster main cap bolts... they are actually necked down because (believe it or not) if there is less material, there is less material to stretch and thus the over all stretch IS less. Then on the fluting... those that say it doesn't provide increased rigidity don't take into consideration the structural integrity of the arch and that for the barrel to flex/whip/bend more, the surface area would have to deform and arch structures don't deform very readily (which is why most bridges are arches that span really long areas, csiling supports that provide vast open areas are arches, etc...)
Anyway, where no single event throws off the accuracy by much... a whole lot of ~littles~ adds up to a bunch real fast.
On the video of Blackwater folks... there were many times you heard them ripping off more than a single round. Sounded like they were shooting out around 800 yards, that adds a whole bunch of $#!+ to the equation... over their mainly the up currents by the heat coming off the sand/dirt; again, it in itself not that much but combine it with everything else and...
(personally I felt they should have had either 7.62's or .50 BMG's :) )

[The Guinea]

Wally World (around here) has Blazer Brass 115 grain for $7.98 per 50 rounds.

To be honest I think the Blazers shoot much cleaner and more accuarte than the WWB anyways.

The Guinea